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Nest Location: 23rd floor on the SE side of the tower (Pavillon Roger-Gaudry) at the University of Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Roger (male) Unbanded.
Spirit (female) Bands: black over green 93/E, hatched in 2004 at the Hilliard Road Bridge in Ohio.


No cam.
Nest Location: Stack J-4 at the Turcot interchange.
Polly (female offspring of Spirit and Roger, hatched in 2009)
Algo (male offspring of Spirit and Roger, hatched in 2009)

Hi,

As mentioned by others during the last months, we have a special situation at the University of Montreal peregrine nest. The purpose of this post is to inform you about this situation but also to ask for possible similar situations at other places (unfortunately I have not the time to browse through the thousands of pages of this very interesting forum )

What happens is that the longtime partner of Spirit, Roger, has apparently disappeared. At the same time a new male was more and more present, including in the nestbox where it was seen interacting with Spirit. This situation started at the beginning of september 2014. This new male is banded so we know him: it is Eole, born in 2011 at the University of Montréal nest, and therefore a son of Spirit and Roger...

As time went on, we were more and more considering the possibility that Spirit and Eole could mate together. The confirmation of this came earlier than expected. At january 15 I was able to film a mating between the two at Oratoire Saint-Joseph:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPOd6ea2C2I
In my blog (in French) I present evidences that the male was banded and that one of the band matches Eole's one (Roger was unbanded): http://falco-urbanis.blogspot.ca/2015/01/accouplement-de-spirit-et-eole.html

So we have an incest mother/son!

But there may even be more: Eole was seen mating with an unbanded female last year at a new nesting site in Montréal. The pair showed all the signs of brooding but ultimately the attempt failed. The fact that Eole moved from one partner to the other this year could easily be understood if the first partner disappeared, however some of my observations suggest this was not the case (I cannot conclude with certainty however; for example I cannot completely exclude the possibility that a third falcon was involved in the observations)

In conclusion, I am looking for references to the following situations at nesting sites covered by this forum:
- incest (I am aware only of the Bruxelles case).
- divorce (change of partner that cannot be explained by the disparition of the first partner)
- adult falcons visiting their birth place (in addition to Eole, 2 other children of Roger and Spirit have visited the nesting box in the last 2 years)

Thank you very much and happy new year!

Hello sphinx5!!

Turns out like SKy Girl Blue wrote, that incest is somewhat common. The first generation of it is not quite the problem that most think it is. What happens is certain genetic traits become consolidated, although one does not know whether the trait will be a good one, or a negative one.

I watch closely Spirit's sister, Mystic, at her nestsite. When Mystic's grandmother Priscilla fell ill and died, Mystic appeared the next season, to pair with her Grandfather, Maverick. For two season's they had 4 young each year, and the 3 of the female's of those 8, have aquired nestsite's of their own. Two are now at nest's that have cam's and the other is at a heavily monitored nest. Other than the typical egg not hatching here and there, they are fully productive female's and no visible problems.

Keep in mind that inbreeding is done to create a breed of animal. All our domesticated breeds were and some new breeds pop up, that are created by using inbreeding to fix a trait that makes that breed popular. At the same time as a pretty or cute breed can be created, the problem side is certain health issues that can come up along with the inbreeding for pretty and cute, such as hip dysplacia in certain "purebred" dogs, and cross eye's in "purebred" Siamese cats. When those two types of animals breed outside of the "purebred" status, the resulting "mutts" do not usually have the health issues due to "new blood" entering into the genetics.

In birds, inbreding usually affects egg viability, or in the visibile bird it's beak (crossed) and internally the most common problem is lowered immune system.

I personlly would not be a bit concerned over the pairing of Spirit and Eole...

Gald you took the time to join and post. This is a great group here!

In reference to changing locations: Our biologist in Edmonton says, that in Edmonton, we have a hierarchy of locations.

Bell seems to be prime
U of A -next
Weber - next
then we have 3 or 4 more locations.


when peregrines come back from migration they come back to their spot if possible, but then go cruising. If it appears a spot has opened in a more prime location , they will try and move in, and keep it, which would leave their site open. ( I am simplifying this the best I can) . We have had this happen.

Of course, some do not make it back from migration , and so there is an opening at their site, or they come back a bit later and a new peregrine is there.
Then they have to fight o get it back. This happened at WEber last year. Miss Edmonton always returns late and there was a new female there. when Miss Edmonton returned, It was not much of a an altercation. MIss Edmonton prevailed. But then in 2007 MIss Edmonton lost her prime spot at U of A( in a nasty battle) and went to WEber , and has been there ever since.

so Roger may just not be around right now. OUr biologist says, it is mostly the males that will return to an area where they were raised( we know there is always exceptions). That is why when he hacks juveniles along the Pembina, he likes to use mostly males as they are most likely to return. Females tend to nest further away. For example, RAdisson at U of A, Edmonton, is from Winnipeg site( princess and Trey are her parents) . But Ivy, (Trey and Princess's son ) took over Winnipeg site , when Trey did not return. Previously , Trey took over the site , when his dad did not return.

Is this as clear as mud

our biologist says it does not harm the offspring.

hope this helps

my fingers are crossed for Roger , but want no harm to come to anyone.

sphinx5
Welcome

Incest, adultery, divorce, single parenting, foster eggs, adopted chicks, etc. We have pretty much seen it all, every heartbreaking, unimaginable death you can think of as well as every miraculous, joyful survival and acts of love, patience, and even kindness it seems. So many unbelievable stories in this falcon world.

I see that others have given you some information that you requested.
I can think of Clara of SJ who had already laid eggs, when a new male, FC, arrived and became her new mate. (after a battle, I think) Her old mate, EC, never left the area but didn't approach the nest again or interfere with the family at all. This was in 2012. You can read the day by day account in the archives if you like. It was fascinating really.

I Came to post pictures from today. Female, Spirit I assume, and Male, at the nest. She Entered the box several times, but he did not join her. Finally, she flew up there to be with him.

Welcome Spinx5
I can not give you more information. As you can see from the post before there is a good team of people that come here to get help and to give the call of fire, when something is wrong at a nest. Please keep us up to date on the nest you watch. I am a fledge watcher in training at the Edmonton U of A nest.

Wow! I never expected to have so many answers in so little time: thank you very much to all. I will need some times to digest all these informations!

The question whether Roger was migrating is a very interesting one. Without the new camera installed directly in front of the nestbox by Eve Belisle in March 2014 we would have noticed that 2 falcons were visiting the nest and we would probably have concluded that it was Roger and Spirit... But the new camera showed that it was Eole and Spirit... Also, in an attempt to assess the presence of Roger, I looked back to my 2013's photos/videos and discovered that a pair of falcons that were visiting the nestbox on october 29, 2013 - and that I believed were Roger and Spirit - were actually Polly and very probably Algo (in no case the male can be Roger)... In other photos/videos it was not possible to tell if the falcon was banded or not. The presence of Spirit during all the year is better documented however.
On the positive(?) side, last year a mating took place at exactly the same place and almost exactly the same day than the mating that I filmed a few days ago. The video shows no band on one of the male's leg, which suggests that it may have been Roger (Eole is banded on its two legs). If so and if Roger is migrating, we can at least say that he is late this year.

Let's see what will happen next...

Both?

ljames

11.50 am Spirit & Eole (?), departures