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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:12 am 
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To add further to my response to your question Mary Anne, I will say I have learned lots since I began volunteering at the local bird rehab and it is not all about the animals.

First, licensed rehabbers are highly regulated at both the state and federal level. Each rehabber pays fees to have the permits and they do not receive any compensation for their work unless it is approved by either the state or the fed, whomever takes jurisdiction. All money they receive is from donations which is why many rehab facilities like the Wildlife Center of Virginia have huge educational programs, fundraising and the like. That takes a great deal of sophistication and most of the small operations want their focus to be on the rehabbing and not the fundraising. The place I volunteer at is a non profit, but they have elected not to have a board of directors and all the bureaucracy that goes with it. For those operations that have the boards, fundraising, etc., the board can actually vote to oust the rehabbers from having any decision making. You trade one thing for another.

The other thing I have learned is that the government has a great deal of involvement, or as I say intrusion and many of the small operations are opting out. It just isn't worth it anymore. They do decide who and what gets treated often times especially if cost is a factor. Unfortunately the land of rehabbing is not perfect and deals with more than just the fixing and repairing of injured animals.

I will see what I can do to get this bird some help, but my hands are also tied. Besides surgery I do not know what needs to be done. If it were as easy as driving there and picking it up, I would do it, but I simply cannot. Breaks my heart, but that is the way it is.

I hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:30 am 
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GIGI DOES IPL EVER GET INVOLVED AS COMMUNITY SERVICE?


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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:06 am 
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I don't know about that. I made some inquiries and will advise if I hear anything.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:18 am 
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THANKS GIGI! :eggthumbup: WAS UNSURE, BUT HOPEFUL THEY MAY HAVE INTEREST AS LINDALU IS A CONFIRMED FALCON FROM THEIR SITE.


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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:26 am 
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gigi wrote:
To add further to my response to your question Mary Anne, I will say I have learned lots since I began volunteering at the local bird rehab and it is not all about the animals.

First, licensed rehabbers are highly regulated at both the state and federal level. Each rehabber pays fees to have the permits and they do not receive any compensation for their work unless it is approved by either the state or the fed, whomever takes jurisdiction. All money they receive is from donations which is why many rehab facilities like the Wildlife Center of Virginia have huge educational programs, fundraising and the like. That takes a great deal of sophistication and most of the small operations want their focus to be on the rehabbing and not the fundraising. The place I volunteer at is a non profit, but they have elected not to have a board of directors and all the bureaucracy that goes with it. For those operations that have the boards, fundraising, etc., the board can actually vote to oust the rehabbers from having any decision making. You trade one thing for another.

The other thing I have learned is that the government has a great deal of involvement, or as I say intrusion and many of the small operations are opting out. It just isn't worth it anymore. They do decide who and what gets treated often times especially if cost is a factor. Unfortunately the land of rehabbing is not perfect and deals with more than just the fixing and repairing of injured animals.

I will see what I can do to get this bird some help, but my hands are also tied. Besides surgery I do not know what needs to be done. If it were as easy as driving there and picking it up, I would do it, but I simply cannot. Breaks my heart, but that is the way it is.

I hope this helps.


Thanks so much, gigi...and it certainly explains a lot!! I am hoping that they choose to help LindaLu...but, I'm not counting on it. Wing fracture doesn't sound like an easy fix to me, requiring a long stay and then a period of rehab, all costly and time consuming....but, I have my fingers crossed!!!..ya just never know!!!

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:24 pm 
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skygirlblue wrote:
gigi wrote:
To add further to my response to your question Mary Anne, I will say I have learned lots since I began volunteering at the local bird rehab and it is not all about the animals.

First, licensed rehabbers are highly regulated at both the state and federal level. Each rehabber pays fees to have the permits and they do not receive any compensation for their work unless it is approved by either the state or the fed, whomever takes jurisdiction. All money they receive is from donations which is why many rehab facilities like the Wildlife Center of Virginia have huge educational programs, fundraising and the like. That takes a great deal of sophistication and most of the small operations want their focus to be on the rehabbing and not the fundraising. The place I volunteer at is a non profit, but they have elected not to have a board of directors and all the bureaucracy that goes with it. For those operations that have the boards, fundraising, etc., the board can actually vote to oust the rehabbers from having any decision making. You trade one thing for another.

The other thing I have learned is that the government has a great deal of involvement, or as I say intrusion and many of the small operations are opting out. It just isn't worth it anymore. They do decide who and what gets treated often times especially if cost is a factor. Unfortunately the land of rehabbing is not perfect and deals with more than just the fixing and repairing of injured animals.

I will see what I can do to get this bird some help, but my hands are also tied. Besides surgery I do not know what needs to be done. If it were as easy as driving there and picking it up, I would do it, but I simply cannot. Breaks my heart, but that is the way it is.

I hope this helps.
Thanks so much, gigi...and it certainly explains a lot!! I am hoping that they choose to help LindaLu...but, I'm not counting on it. Wing fracture doesn't sound like an easy fix to me, requiring a long stay and then a period of rehab, all costly and time consuming....but, I have my fingers crossed!!!..ya just never know!!!
Thanks SGB. It is so sad that it may come down to money and jurisdiction. I will keep you all posted, but I, like you, am not expecting much.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:52 am 
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Good news! :sum9: John Castrale has given permission for me to get LindaLu and transfer her to a rehabber who will arrange for the surgery. Am working on the details now, but if she is still alive, I will travel tomorrow to get her unless John has someone else to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:25 pm 
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gigi wrote:
Good news! :sum9: John Castrale has given permission for me to get LindaLu and transfer her to a rehabber who will arrange for the surgery. Am working on the details now, but if she is still alive, I will travel tomorrow to get her unless John has someone else to do it.


Best news of the day!!! YIPPEE!!! Please keep us posted!!!

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:55 pm 
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:clap: HANG IN THERE LINDALU!!!


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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:23 pm 
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gigi wrote:
Good news! :sum9: John Castrale has given permission for me to get LindaLu and transfer her to a rehabber who will arrange for the surgery. Am working on the details now, but if she is still alive, I will travel tomorrow to get her unless John has someone else to do it.

OMG HOW EXCITING! :egg20:

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:49 pm 
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:sum9: You GO, girl!!


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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:11 am 
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Oh gosh, I wish I had better news to share. John did get in touch with the rehabber and he had already euthanized LindaLu and John was not sure why. The rehabber indicated that he had been unsuccessful in reaching anyone. His wife said they had notified the feds, but perhaps they really had not. He was unfamiliar with the rehabber who said he had been doing it for about 40 years.

John will notify IPL to instruct their employees to contact a rehabber in Bloomington in the future. Wish I had better news.

Godspeed LindaLu. May you be the wind beneath the wings of those who may need a little help.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:58 am 
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OH NO!!! You are kidding me!!! I am going to try and refrain from having a public tantrum here. Did this rehabber even contact John's office at all? Does he even have a license to rehab raptors?

Sounds like to me that Indiana protocols for rehabbers need to be revised or something....at least for certain bird species. John and his office can't be expected to know all the rehabbers in the state, therefore rehabbers need to follow certain protocols. Maybe this rehabber did contact John's office, but doesn't sound like it. Maybe if he had (instead of calling the Feds, if he actually did), then he would have been given instructions as to what to do and arrangements could have been made immediately for LindaLu!!

gigi, if you hadn't played detective and contacted this rehabber, then John, we wouldn't have had this much info...sorry you had to be the bearer of such sad news, but thanks for trying...and for letting us know.


Poor little LindaLu. I hope she didn't suffer too badly... :sorrow: sweet girl.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:45 am 
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Okay, I am going to get on my soapbox. Please excuse me, I don't mean to offend anyone, just share what I know.

I knew this would not be the answer we were hoping for. John's area of expertise is non game fish and wildlife and I am sure this man did not know to contact him. Per John the rehabber tried without success to contact an area conservation officer. I probably should have been more pushy, but I feel I have to respect the people who are out there trying to help our wildlife with no financial support. We are talking a mom and pop rehabber and everyday the government seems to impose more regulations to make their jobs more difficult. I cannot remember what state recently mandated that all raccoons and squirrels are to be automatically euthanized - no rehab allowed. We live in a world of lots of regulation, some good and some not so good.

As to this specific case, although I do not agree with what happened, I knew when I talked to the rehabber on Sunday that the situation was not good. I could kick myself for not asking the question, "What can I do to help?" But both he and his wife said they had contacted the feds, and I am not sure who they were even referring to, but I certainly did not want to overstep. I have no authority other than I volunteer for the DNR during falcon fledging in Indy and operate under the permits carried by our rehab.

Most of these small rehab operations are just trying to do some good in the world. They are not making a living of this, in fact it is costing them. For those large operations like the Raptor Resource Center, Wildlife Center of Virginia, they have huge educational programs and other means to raise monies. When we take in a bird at our rehab, people are stunned to learn that we get no compensation. And the price we pay for Just trying to quietly go about our business of helping animals, is to not enlarge, have a board of directors, a museum, PR Department. While those operations bring in money, they are expensive. Fundraising takes time away from rehabbing.

So if we are asking for more regulation my opinion is that it would come at a cost to the animals. Already people who have been at it for years are opting out. Just not worth it. One person that we deal with frequently just informed us that he may have to quit, because his neighbors have complained to the local zoning board. He went through all the work to be licensed and now, unless he would be able to move to a property zoned for wild animals, he will have to quit.

There are no simple solutions. I will be more proactive if something like this happens again. I did not give myself enough credit or power to step up and do the right thing. I learned a few things from this experience and will use that knowledge in the future.

Thanks for listening and if I have offended anyone with my opinions and perceptions, I am truly sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:21 pm 
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Thanks so much, gigi for "getting on your soapbox"...I think at the time, you did what you thought best. We can all play Monday Morning quarterback....I do that all the time.

I did not mean to imply that I was not thankful for the mom and pop rehab operations out there. I know they do it out of a labor of love with their own money!! I also didn't mean to imply that more regulations needed to be placed on these people. What I do think could be helpful would be for these "mom and pop" rehabbers to be provided with a standard protocol (guidance, if you will) that they are required to follow under certain circumstances. Maybe its simply a list of phone numbers of who to call first or what to do if they receive a raptor with a specific injury, especially if it is a raptor (or any species) on the threatened or endangered list. "Calling the feds" could have been calling the "resource officer" in his eyes...

I certainly don't have any good answers or solutions..but, if I were a rehabber, I would want a "here's what you do if_____________" instruction sheet right at my finger tips if I received a critically injured animal that I was not prepared to treat. I think that info and direction has to come from a state or regional DNR...but, that's just my layman's opinion.

I think everybody did the best they could at the moment...but, you're right, maybe some lessons can be learned and implemented before this comes up again....I'm thankful everyday for all the non-profits and local rehabbers who do the best they can to take care of our wildlife!!

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:36 pm 
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gigi, (I hope this makes sense, not good with putting my thoughts into words)
You can never offend anyone. Your statements hold so much truth about the way things are. I believe these people did what they thought was best for the falcon & evidently just didn't have the information (phone #) that could have helped MAYBE. We will never know the extent of the injuries so we shouldn't judge their decisions.
Hopefully they can get phone numbers and contacts so they will be more prepared if something like this happens again. If it had been me I would have assumed that these people had information, contacts & phone numbers and knew who to get hold of right away.
Sometimes people like this wonderful couple just need a bit more help with things like this.
Maybe someone can make up a list for them with the proper names, numbers, organizations, and hours/days that they can be reached. Well you get the idea.
OK so now I'll go clean house and stop rattling.
BUT ANYWAY gigi, you did what you could & were going to be there so stop kicking yourself PLEASE


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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Thanks Mary Anne and Jannice. I have to believe in my heart that he did the best he could. The Indiana license requires extensive course work and hours of volunteering with a licensed rehabber much like an intern or resident at a hospital. When one is out in a rural area, an avian vet may not be around. Our vet is one of only 3 in our area and we are so fortunate that she does not charge us. We often treat with pain meds and antibiotics until we can get a bird to the vet for x-rays and further treatment. I wish it were as simple as having a set-in-concrete book of rules. I have a friend who is often frustrated when she plays bridge. She wants all of the rules laid out and has a hard time going with her gut. It takes both, plus luck sometimes.

For LindaLu, her job on this earth might have been to teach us all something. I hope I will not disappoint her.

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:17 pm 
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:thumbup

Being in a rural setting does come with its own unique challenges..(I grew up rural...I know..only thing we had was a Dairy Queen..and it was only open in the summer-hee hee)...I'm sure we don't know everything that transpired, nor is it ever simple or as cut and dried as it appears, BUT if a phone call to the "feds" was the first phone call...then, maybe a refresher on "what to do" needs to go out to all rehabbers. This doesn't negate their dedication, or their value, or their good hearts, or their training...Assuming that everyone knows what to do can be a problem in itself...Of course, this happening on a weekend (as always) didn't help either..

Oh well...I need to move on...as you said, gigi, a lot of lessons to learn resulting from this so maybe that's the silver lining in this very dark cloud.!!

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Thanks Mary Anne. I will take a Dairy Queen any day! DQ ice cream cakes have always been this family's birthday cake of choice. Last month I got 2 in 2 days, one for Liz's birthday at bird rehab and then a second for Frank's birthday the next day. Roy and I may have to take a car ride and get one now!

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 Post subject: Re: IPL in Petersburg, IN 2014
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:51 pm 
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:sorrow:


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